The Souls of the Just Are in the Hand of God
/For this week’s reflection, we’re trying something new! Rather than a homily or sermon-type of reflection, Sr. Leslie Keener and Sr. Alice Gerdeman will have a faith-sharing conversation about the First Reading for All Souls Day, which is from the Book of Wisdom. We hope that, as we share, the Holy Spirit speaks to you too! The following is a transcript of their conversation. To listen to the conversation, check out this week’s Providence Podcast episode.
Sister Alice: Well, certainly those were interesting readings that we have for this Sunday. This one from Wisdom, and I just like Wisdom because it has wisdom in it, I suppose. But when it talks about death and the dead, which is an autumn theme, and it's also because it is considered All Souls' Day, I find it very interesting how it is woven into the reading that they picked from Wisdom at some point in our history.
Sister Leslie: Yeah, and this reading for me is always very touching because so often for our funerals, our sisters choose this to be read at their Mass. And so when, at our sisters' funerals, we're in that space of sadness, and I hear this reading, I always find it very comforting to hear, “The souls of the just are in the hands of God,” and there's images of peace and care that, you know, our sister who is with God is being comforted and held, and I don't know, I just I find a lot of comfort in that for myself.
Sister Alice: I do too. And I think it's interesting because so often when I've heard commentaries about it, it's like, oh, they suffered this, and they suffered that, and now they're going to get a reward, and all's going to be okay. And, you know, I look at our sisters, and people suffer. I mean, there's no we can deny that. But then on the other hand, I don't think that's what it's talking about. It's saying, God was there all the time. It wasn't a real suffering if God is with you. And it's not like you have to wait until you get to the end, and then God springs it on you and says, "Oh, look!" because this is the Book of Wisdom, and it says, "Like sparks through the chaff," you know, it's there. So, while the person who is deceased or any of us probably doesn't feel sparks going through them very often, but at the same time, that's what's happening. People are spreading wisdom when they are about God, and that springs out into the field. And what a joy that should be. We just don't think about it, at least I don't.
Sister Leslie: Yes. And I don't either, but I guess as I was reflecting on this reading, I thought, because we read it at funerals, it put me in mind of people who have died. But I also thought, gosh, you know, I wonder if this reading is also about living, breathing people because the souls of the just now, present, like you said, all through our lives are in the hands of God. We may not feel peace all the time. I certainly don't feel peaceful all the time, but either way, the souls of the just are in the hands of God through affliction and through times of joy or feelings of peace. God is present, too. Maybe this reading is about people who have died, and maybe it's about people who are living now.
Sister Alice: Or both. Or both. Yeah. Can't rule that out. One of the questions that sometimes pops into my head when we talk about something like, the souls of the just. And it's almost like a temptation in a reading like this to say, "Oh good, this person that I knew, that was a just person. If I weighed their life, guess what? They would come out as really good." But that's my interpretation, and that may or may not be the whole story, and probably it isn't the whole story of a person's life. You know, I've been reading the book by Elizabeth Johnson called Come, Have Breakfast. And it's like God saying to people, "Well, you know, why don't you come over for breakfast? Why can't we have lunch? You know, why can't we be friends and why can't we see the goodness in each other," because generally you don't invite people to come for breakfast or lunch if you see no goodness in them. And there's no limit on who God invites. There used to be this moral question of like, "What would you do if you got to heaven and Hitler was there?" Well, you know, I would hope I didn't recognize him, would be one thing, but the other part of it is, maybe then I would have the wisdom or the gift of seeing through God's eyes better. And while that would not make what happened on earth good, it might not make him as culpable, because I don't know.
Sister Leslie: Yeah, I'm with you on that. I hope that in the light of eternity, that I don't carry with me all the things, the anger or the resentment and that with eyes of God, even some of the people that we might consider evil, I can see good in them, or hurt, or ways they have been harmed, or ways that how they acted out of their brokenness instead of their blessedness. Which, I mean, we all do.
Sister Alice: We all do that. And, you know, that's what I think makes God God. It's when we say there's a just God, and many times the pictures are of an angry, just God. But, you know, I don't think that's God. The loving God would probably look at the people that had the most pain and even the ones who clearly didn't do right in some ways and say, "Well, come on into breakfast. Let's talk about that." You know, "What was going on there?" or "Do you know that because of what you did, I as God was able to turn it around, and there were people who found me, who found divinity, because of you?" Because people react in various ways. And, you know, I would think that would be a surprise if God says that to me, and I trust God will say that to me. "Do you know that I worked through you? And there are sparks out there in the field of me because you were there."
Sister Leslie: Yes, well, I look at you and know that.
Sister Alice: Yeah. Because I have been on the receiving end of that. We see it in each other. But in some people, I have the arrogance to not look that far but to condemn. And that's an arrogance to say, "I can see it." Yes. And, well, thank God, like the Pharisees that we had in the reading last Sunday. "There but for the grace of God goes I." You know, for Pete's sake, the grace of God was there no matter what, and in everybody. There's an arrogance in saying, "I myself can judge," when so often we say, "Only God can judge," really and truly judge correctly.
Sister Leslie: And I guess I have another thought too that it’s not only the souls of the just who are in the hands of God. I think the souls of everyone are in the hands of God. The Gospel says that, too. Right at the beginning, Jesus says, "Everything that God gives me will come to me, and I will not reject anyone who comes to me." I don't know how I came to believe that about God, but maybe from my own experience of being received and forgiven and loved in my imperfection. And I think about when I was younger, and I was involved in an interdenominational group on campus when I was a college student and as people talked about God, it was very judgmental and condemning, like you have to be saved, and of course anyone can be saved, but you have to do this, this, and this. And I guess as I reflected about it, I just don't think God is that rigid about who can come to God. And I think everyone can be saved, and probably everyone is.
Sister Alice: I mean, there is a truth when it, when we say of ourselves, we are all sinners. That's the human condition. But the fact that we are all sinners has to be set up a side of also the truth that says we are all forgiven. So, that means being a sinner isn't like something that's the major part of life. That we are forgiven is the big truth. And, yes, we are all sinners, and look how glorious God is. That always we can count on forgiveness. Always. And we don't have to think about it. Sometimes, I mean, I have I look at some of the prayers that used to be in the old prayer books, and it was it was I what you said, if I do this, then God will love me more or I will, and I think, well, now, how would I know what's in the mind of God's point one? And secondly, God is love. Eternal, wonderful, complete love. How does he get more loving? If he's already complete love, how does that happen? I just trust that maybe that's just a truth and that I am completely loved. And I forget it, and I don't always act out of it, but it's a truth. And I think that's one of the things that we need to stress at all funerals and at all the times when we remember our relatives and friends, or when we are thinking about or praying about people who quite frankly seem to be wreaking havoc in the world. And not anything that anybody would put under the best possible actions for a human being to take. Always, these people are of God. And that is hard.
Sister Leslie: It is hard. Because there's something about that that also invites me to reflect on how I am. And like you said, you know, we're all sinners. But it's not just about sin, but I could always just do better in my spiritual life. I just could go a little deeper or stretch a little more or spend a little more time in prayer or not be so distracted. And I think God is just waiting patiently by with me for me to stop buzzing and spinning in my mind and oh yeah, here I am, here you are, God.
Sister Alice: Well, and that's part of what we have as a history of spirituality. Like there's steps, or a ladder that you climb or something like that. And you keep trying and how can how can I do that? How can I try? Obviously, there are some steps, you know, I can calm down, I can take time, et cetera. But it isn't like, oh, good, now I've got to step two. And if I keep working, I'm going to get up that ladder eventually, because that isn't the way it works, at least not in my life. I can have moments when I think, God is present here. I can relish and praise God here. I know God is love, but a couple days later, I may have forgotten that.
And it doesn't mean I fell off the ladder and have to start up again. It's it that that dynamic or that image that I think is part of some of the great spiritual writers who like all human beings were found it basically impossible to explain how God works in us. And maybe that meant more at a different time, or maybe it should mean more to me, I don't know, but it seems like a false way for an all-loving God to be present. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take the time we need, or we shouldn't open ourselves.
Sister Leslie: I'm with you. And that image isn't particularly helpful to me either, or particularly true. I mean, I can look back at how I've grown in the spiritual life for sure, and I think that over time my prayer has changed, or I've grown into it, or it's easier for me to settle in than maybe it was when I was in my 20s. But, but that doesn't mean that I have arrived at any step. Because there's always times when I I don't live into that well.
Sister Alice: And I don't really understand life, never mind spiritual life. I don't understand it. I trust it. I experience parts of it. I re-experience those parts as I look back on them. And I think, oh my. I don't think I slipped off the ladder or went down a step. I think maybe, just maybe in my aging, maturity, or whatever, I experience something else that makes me look at things differently and that's a gift. And I don't think God cares. As long as long as God is with us, I can't imagine God fretting.
Sister Leslie: And so then thinking again of the first line of this passage from Wisdom, the souls of the just are in the hands of God, that maybe God really I mean, I take comfort from that, but maybe God really delights in holding each of us and caring for each of us so tenderly.
Sister Alice: Because it says after that, to the eyes of fools, they may seem to be dead. Maybe we just don't see God's hand in people, so we're basically fools, because we think they're dead, and God's life is there too, hidden perhaps from my eyes, but there.
Sister Leslie: In our small groups we close with a call or an invitation or a takeaway, so maybe we can share any call or invitation we hear.
Sister Alice: Well, I think as we discussed a call for me might be to, as I pray, and I look at who I am praying for, instead of praying for them, I praise God for them.
Sister Leslie: Oh, that's really beautiful.
Sister Alice: Just say that, I praise God for you. Whatever it is, whether you're sick or lonely, or the cutest little kid I ever did see in the benches of church or whatever. I praise God for you.
Sister Leslie: I like that. And I guess the call I hear is just very simple, too, to just acknowledge that all of us are in the hands of God, if God has hands. All of us are in the presence, all of us are in the care of God, and maybe in my own prayer to take a little bit of time to rest in that. I think I am often just running here and there, here and there, doing, doing, doing. Maybe there is a part of me that is trying to do good work for God, but sometimes I think what God wants is just my presence as I want God's presence.
For Reflection:
What from this conversation resonates with you?
What does it mean to you that "the souls of the just are in the hand of God"?
What call or invitation do you hear God offering to you? How will you respond?
By Sister Alice Gerdeman, CDP and Sister Leslie Keener, CDP